The Obama camp explained the "present" votes in the same article as a strategy to point out flaws in those bills. Besides, McCain's voting record isn't perfect either.

Come on, that doesn't pass the sniff test. Think about what they are telling you, that even after all the discussion, the work in committee, and bringing the bill to a full vote, Obama voted "present" as a strategy to highlight a flaw in the bills? Surely you see the missing logic in that explanation.

And giving Obama's voting record a pass because nobody (including McCain) has a perfect one is an attempt to deflect scrutiny. At least be honest with yourself.

At least with Obama we get someone who has a command of the English language!

WOW Carolyn, is that your standard for voting for President? As long as he is a smooth talker, his record doesn't matter? Then you are part of the problem.

Remember Hitler? He was a great talker able to talk Germany into all manner of atrocities. He almost succeeded in conquering all of Europe and exterminating an entire race of people!

See, it takes more than being a smooth talker to run this country. He has to possess integrity, good judgment and character. How do we know if what he promises is how he will deliver? We look at his voting record to evaluate what he has done in the past, not what he SAYS he has done.

In the case of Obama, they don't agree.

It is so easy to get sucked in to "how" they deliver their speeches and lose sight of what they are saying or not saying. I don't remember ever hearing so many empty cliches thrown around in a presidential campaign before as I have heard from Obama. Even Michele didn't say much more that what a wonderful guy her hubby is, but she said it really well. Makes you want to get on board that train! Except that if you are taking notes on important positions and promises, when they are done you realize they just gave a bunch of non-specific rhetoric without any details. I will be looking for more detail from McCain. I know he is stiff and not as much a showman, but I am not voting for the best showman. I want a decisive leader and I don't think Obama's "present" votes and far left voting history would be good for the country.

I am just saying that the way a candidate speaks tells me he is smarter than say George Bush who can't complete a sentence without stumbling. I don't think McCain is such a good speaker either, and Obama went to Harvard. I think he would make a better impression.

It's amazing to see the people of this country so divided, when the need to unite is so obvious. Blue and red states, liberal versus conservative, Democrat and Republican. We are less evolved now than we were in the 70"s!
Very sad. This country will unite when we stop drawing lines in the sand against each other and choose the person we MOST want to run our country and then let them do it, rather than waste hours upon hours upon hours trying to convince each other why they aren't doing it right. Whether you're for McCain or for Obama, it's the American people that will put them there.
This constant back-biting is like an annoying dog that keeps jumping up at you. It's tiresome and it serves no real purpose.
Free speech is one of our founding rights as citizens and I've defended those rights with a gun in my hands, but it sure does get old sometimes.

Are you saying Michael we should all quietly listen to what ever we are told by the main parties and then silently decide who we vote for and all march quietly to the polling place and cast our vote for one and let them have their way with the country? What if we disagree with one or both, shouldn't we say so? Maybe we should have just one party pick one candidate and we can all vote for them. Then there is no reason to disagree and we can all just get along.

I agree the American people will "put him there" but without enough free information and exchange of ideas, it could be an uninformed choice. Wouldn't an informed choice be better?

I don't hear anybody trying to convince anybody to change their vote btw, just people sharing their opinions. Isn't that the American way? If I misinterpreted your words, feel free to set me straight.

Micheal, would you mind explaining what you mean by the country "uniting" after we stop "drawing lines in the sand against each other", also how do "we" choose the person "we most want to run the country" with the present 2-party system, also does the President "run the country" or does Congress?

I am not trying to be a smartass, I just want to understand what you said. Thanks.

We were more evolved in the 70s?

The 70s brought growing disillusionment with government. First a Vice President and then a President resigned under threat of impeachment. Crime increased despite Nixon's pledge to make law and order a top priority of his presidency. The passage of the Immigration Act of 1965 opened a floodgate of immigrants from Third World countries that brought mounting problems in the 70s that continue today. Affirmative action became a controversial policy. Mandatory school busing often led to violence and a disruption of the educational process. The Vietnam War continued to divide the country even after the Paris Peace Accords. We had two of the worst Presidents in history: Ford and Carter. The economy suffered the worst recession in 40 years.

The rising divorce rate left an increasing number of women as sole breadwinners and forced more and more of them into poverty. The Arab oil embargo caused severe shortages and energy prices skyrocketed. The anti-war movement was highly visible on college campuses leading to the Kent State massacre with four students gunned down by Ohio National Guardsmen attempting to stem the anti-war demonstrations.

The 70s had their share of turmoil, political and otherwise. I wouldn't say we are less evolved now than then. On the good side, there was some great music in the 70s.

GREAT music in the 70s!!

I had forgotten about some of the things from the 70s. I did remember Carter. Worst Pres ever!!

In some ways, the President is a political figurehead. He has veto power, but even that can be over ridden. He proposes a budget but Congress actually writes the final budget. He is Commander-in-chief but especially in recent years Congress wants to micro-manage. There is a problem when we have a Democratic Congress and a Democrat President because the threat of veto is almost non-existent. That check and balance is important. It is a minor but important part of the process.

We have had political debate throughout history. There will always be political divide. To end it would require bowing to a monarch.

The political system works best when citizens are active in it. It fails when people become complacent and sit on the sidelines.

Thats my 2 cents worth.

Project Vote Smart is a good place to check for facts about the candidates. Everyone should read it to educate themselves about the candidates. This site has a link to it in the sidebar.

Great discussion! Personally I am not enthralled with either candidate but I appreciate all the discussion I can take in. The Project Vote Smart site is an excellent resource to get the facts about the candidates so you can make a sound decision. I recommend it.

RW

I thought the WT article covered all the bases and provided food for thought. For those who believe Sen. Obama is a moderate, it should be a call to look further. At the same time, look at Sen. McCain's voting record. We should know who our candidates are and how they have voted on issues important for the country.

Good discussion thread.

To me, the most amazing phenomenon of this election has been the Hollywood atmosphere that has lifted Barack Obama to near rock star status. It even surpasses that of Bill Clinton.

I have watched the media fawn over Obama and lamented the death of objective journalism. Gone are the days when journalists reported news without flaunting their own biases. Instead, they have become enthusiastic ad men for, in the present case, Obama, no longer content to merely report news but euphorically climbing on a candidate's bandwagon.

Gone too are the days when journalists challenged candidates to defend positions, flesh out vague inferences and generalities. Nor do they flag outright lies.

R.I.P. Unbiased Journalism. You were a cornerstone of our political system. You are missed.

Go Obama!! I love it!!

I have given up on Washington and everything associated with it. It is corrupt and it breeds more corruption. Our media is part of the corruption. The average guy wants to think we are still choosing candidates and voting for the best man. It is all an illusion. We don't pick anyone. The corrupt system and the corrupt people who run it pick the candidates and make us think we are part of the process. We aren't. We just go vote for people we don't even like. What a crock!!!

I agree to a point with Maverick. Our system is broken.

Citizens vote in decreasing numbers because many feel their participation is limited to voting for the "lesser of two evils" when neither represents a flushing out of corruption. Those that do go to the polls are either voting to sustain a special interest, believe not voting is un-American, or are holding on to the belief that by voting, even for someone they don't like, they are helping make a difference.

I fall in the latter group. I desperately want to believe I can make a difference but it is getting harder to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Maverick's comments are on the mark. Disillusionment with the current political process is rampant. The system IS broken. Controlled by special interests and lobbyists with the money and power to influence the media, which in turn influences Joe Q. Public. The bought media has done a fine job of letting the public think they actually control anything here. And please, an "evolved" voter isn't walking around saying "Well, I'm republican so I HAVE to support McCain....or same on Democrat side with Obama. Seriously, I hear that everyday. I say, disband the parties. All run on an AMERICAN ticket. The best choice, chosen by POPULAR VOTE not Electoral vote, becomes our "figurehead".

A good thread here. Nice to see the "juices" flowing.
I still suffer from ED. "Electile" Dysfunction. I can't get excited about any candidate this year, even though the circus revolving around Obama and now McCain's VP pick make for an amusing and somewhat fascinating study in political manipulation and marketing.
I wonder who the special interest groups will elect this time?

You reflect the disillusionment of the nation, but do you agree that much of the dysfunction in Washington is the result of voter apathy? By failing to mind the helm and leaving it to the crew to stear, we effectively gave up control of our ship. They don't want to give it back so recovering it will take hard work. We MUST abandon our apathy and fight to regain that which is ours.

That means identifying people we trust and backing them. Good people willing to fight instead of those who want to gorge themselves at the trough. Easier said than done, but if we spy someone who we believe can actually lead the charge, we should help. After all, we can't expect one or two individuals to fight our battle for us if we are unwilling to get a little bloody ourselves.

I agree. Let's call it what it is. We are lazy. We are too f*ing lazy to even do the research to learn what our elected officials are doing with our money. We think all we have to do is cast a vote for one of two candidates we never even met and then when they steal us blind, we blame "the system". We would check out a housekeeper better than we check out a candidate for president. Fess up people. WE are the system. WE are broke.

Now we have a even BIGGER problem. The thieves are running the country, squandering our money to stay in power and making sure we only get to vote for them and their pals. It is past time to complain about how we are discouraged, it is no use, the problem is too big for us to fix, all the while doing what we do best: sitting on our asses and complaining.

In the old days we would have hired a gunslinger to clean out the bad guys. Maybe we need one now. WE WANT OUR COUNTRY BACK!